Atheist, I mean, Apathist Rhett Hall is back to unpack his church story…

The last time you heard from Rhett Hall, he did his best to poke holes in your host’s personal stories of what they claim to be miraculous events.  This time, we talk in depth about Rhett’s troubled church history and why he doesn’t, or maybe never did, believe in God.  The conversation gets a little spicy as we dive into things like “the church machine” and church leaders who don’t necessarily model what it means to follow Jesus.  
Rhett Hall is a self-taught graphic designer and digital artist, and the owner of Lethal Branding, a full service design business centered around brand identity and continuity. His belief stems from the notion that the teachings of the prophets can be good and useful, without the need for divine inspiration. 
Our goal for this follow-up episode is to demonstrate that it’s possible and actually INSPIRE you to have meaningful, positive conversations with your own community about faith or lack thereof.  Now more than ever, we highly encourage you to contribute to the much-needed, often overlooked art of civil discourse.


  • Welcome back Rhett Hall [4:05]
  • How Rhett became an atheist [6:40]
  • Rhett’s foundation and relationship with God [12:00]
  • The “System” [14:04]
  • Pressure to work/questionable leadership [16:27]
  • Keep the machine churning [19:40]
  • How do you handle church egos? [23:30]
  • Living with your GF and asked to step down [28:40]
  • Did the supernatural even cross your mind? [38:20]
  • I just don’t care (The Apathist) [45:50]
  • A strong sense of right and wrong [50:50]
  • No Divine inspiration? [55:28]
  • How do Nick and Marcus make it fair for skeptics/atheists? [59:16]
  • The Apathist REVEALED [1:02:30]
  • Setting the bar high [1:06:20]
  • How to connect with Rhett [1:07:03]
  • Biggest takeaways/final words of wisdom [1:08:58]